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 Law and burning green waste 
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Joined: 23 Jan 2011, 14:38
Posts: 86
Location: Dept.99
Another instance of throwing out the baby with the bath water. Given that low temperature burning of petrochemical plastics can produce toxic gases the logical action would be to outlaw this practice alone. Plastics should be burnt in industrial incinerators where the necessary high temperatures can be attained.
The instructed alternative of taking vegetation debris to the déchetterie is open to criticism.
The cellulose in the plant structure is formed from the carbon dioxide taken from the air. The inefficient burning of the vegetation in a bonfire does not release all of the carbon back into the air as the dioxide. (Unfortunately a little is converted into carbon monoxide). However some is released as smoke made up of solid carbon and carbonaceous compounds. These particles, including those which soil your neighbours washing, will eventually fall to the ground and be taken out of the carbon cycle, thereby reducing the greenhouse effect, no matter to what small extent.
If taken to the déchetterie the waste will no doubt be composted, possibly with prior shredding using hydrocarbon fuel to drive the shredder. Unfortunately the fermentation process of composting produces some methane gas which if not collected will be released into the atmosphere. The greenhouse effect of methane is up to twenty times worse than that of carbon dioxide; although it is the latter gas which gets the bad press. In addition the act of journeying to and from the déchetterie uses a petrolium fuel adding even more gas to the air.


09 Aug 2012, 12:39
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Joined: 03 Nov 2007, 14:11
Posts: 4160
Location: Creuse/Indre
Sorry drk, gave up after the first paragraph. Then again, not offy bright me :?


09 Aug 2012, 12:48
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Joined: 19 Oct 2004, 15:00
Posts: 2014
Location: Vendee 85
I can just see the locals around here taking the cutoffs to the tip come logging season!


09 Aug 2012, 13:07
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Joined: 31 May 2005, 11:37
Posts: 5857
Location: Ardèche
I am sure we shall see a massive increase in lightning strikes hitting piles of part decayed vegetation and setting light to the tinder dry material thta was going to be gathered up.

_________________
Andy


09 Aug 2012, 13:19
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Joined: 11 Feb 2012, 10:47
Posts: 6128
Location: West Sussex and 17.
For a nation that burns carbonaceous wood for heating that is known to give off carcenogens and carbon it is ludicrous that we will spend gallons of polluting fuel tranporting garden/forest waste to a tip 20kms away to probably find it closed and they refuse to take 20-30 m/3 of garden refuse. I can see a lot of fly tipping potential for the future and the forests and ditches filled with shrub and tree cuttings.

Typically, how does our retired female French neighbour who has 2-3 hectares, admittedly let to farmers, plus her garden transport the refuse on her only means of transport - a Mobylette :roll: , one might say she has to pay someone to do it for her but she is a pensioner and certainly not rich. [-X


09 Aug 2012, 13:45
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Joined: 21 Nov 2008, 22:57
Posts: 916
Hi Pomhorn

Thanks for that - I have printed it out to copy and post through the box of the only neighbour who ever does this .....especially in the evening when you are trying to enjoy sitting in the garden ....or in the afternoon ! The smell of his bonfires and the smoke fill the entire house ! The French neighbours all complain but no one will say anything to him ! I have a feeling it is his way of protesting that these houses were built across the road from him and all his views of the fields were lost ! c'est la vie !

Incidentally, I have been trawling the government/conseill generale websites to see if building work is allowed during August in France ? the builders have started noisily preparing the site next door to us, with a small digger right up to our boundary, and with the subsequent clouds of dust ...ok, this is necessary, but on the hottest days of the year so far, and they do not pack up until 19.00 hours, thus leaving us no time to sit outside - yesterday I ended up with a splitting headache because of the constant drone of the digger ! I am doubly upset because this is the summer I was looking forward to being able to enjoy the garden, having spent the past four summers in hospital or having chemo ......so I am not happy !!!!!! When I mentioned the time to them last night, I just got the usual gallic shrug ....the Mairie is not too helpful either !

Thanks !!


09 Aug 2012, 14:21
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Joined: 19 Oct 2004, 15:00
Posts: 2014
Location: Vendee 85
France doesn't grind to a halt just because it is august, yes a lot of people have their holiday in this month, but it is not compulsory! there are many building projects on small lotisements round here for many it is business as usual, so, I can't imagine there is a law against working in August


09 Aug 2012, 14:31
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Joined: 05 Dec 2008, 17:26
Posts: 4930
Location: Charente
=D> :lol: :lol: =D>


09 Aug 2012, 14:59
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Joined: 05 Dec 2008, 17:26
Posts: 4930
Location: Charente
I did laugh when I saw the suggestion that there might be, since I'm sure a lot of people have sometimes thought there must be a law against working in August. What next? Shops and bars are not allowed to close during August??

Oops no - that's already been suggested here: viewtopic.php?f=33&t=127089 :lol:


09 Aug 2012, 15:02
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Joined: 19 Oct 2004, 15:00
Posts: 2014
Location: Vendee 85
Debnfamily wrote:
What next? Shops and bars are not allowed to close during August??
Restaurants closing for lunch :lol: :lol: :lol:


09 Aug 2012, 16:34
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Joined: 19 Sep 2005, 11:06
Posts: 47881
Location: Eure - ex Deux-Sèvres
Debnfamily wrote:
What next?


Hi!

To reduce particle emissions ( air pollution ) , next ( when in France is uncertain, although many French cities have difficulties to meet constantly the EU norms ) is that it will be compulsory to install particle filters* for new wooden stoves and chimneys , and at a later stage will also apply to the older ones.

Yours,

pomhorn

* They have already started in Germany.


09 Aug 2012, 17:12
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Joined: 11 Feb 2012, 10:47
Posts: 6128
Location: West Sussex and 17.
"ALMOST 12 million people are living in parts of France where the air quality does not meet European norms, official researchers have found.

The ecology ministry's annual air pollution study, published today, found the number of people exposed to fine particles (called PM10) is up slightly in towns and cities, compared with the previous year, but has fallen in rural and industrial areas.

The European limit is 40 micrograms per cubic metre, with no more than 35 days a year exposed to levels over 50 micrograms.

Paris and Marseille were among the worst-affected, but it is not just traffic that is at the source of the problem - wood fires and farming also give off potentially dangerous emissions.

The government says it will be taking a closer look at the problem at the rentrée, during a conference on the environment in mid-September.

One option being discussed is the creation of low-emission air quality control zones, called Zapa, in the areas where the problem is most serious"

A very interesting article that mixes up the pollution sources to what is generally believed or indoctrinated by the fringe or government. [-X


10 Aug 2012, 12:39
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Joined: 05 Dec 2008, 17:26
Posts: 4930
Location: Charente
I've lived in a few places in the UK where we weren't allowed to burn wood or coal but only coke - one being a small market town in a fairly rural area. Do they have similar rules in built up areas in France or could this be one of the things to come?


10 Aug 2012, 12:46
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Joined: 21 Nov 2008, 22:57
Posts: 916
Having just spoken to the builder (debnfamily !!) he tells me that normally there is no construction work in August - but in this case with the main work starting in September he has had to prepare the foundations (with a mini pelle !!!) and the mini pelle is very expensive to hire with a driver, so that is why he is building in August .......and he bought round four lorry loads of soil for my husband for the garden, and is going to mend our boundary wall .....oh and put cement between our fence and the new build so our garden doesn't slide into the new build ........

Meanwhile, I think the law about bonfires is an excellent one - we take all our rubbish to the dechetterie - even if it is inconvenient - and judging by the people there doing the same, not everyone is irresponsible enough to burn it in their back gardens ....I am however hoping the builder will be having one, as I can put all my shredding on it, saving me time sitting shredding it in small bundles .......you could always wait for next year's feu de St Jean ....


10 Aug 2012, 14:16
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Joined: 05 Dec 2008, 17:26
Posts: 4930
Location: Charente
Saying it doesn't normally happen because of the holidays and saying it's not legal are two quite different things! Still - I expect you're no longer pursuing the question of whether it's legal since he's doing some work for you! :lol:

You might think the bonfire thing is a good idea if you only have a normal garden with normal garden rubbish (which I compost rather than burn) but if you had land with woods and bushes that need cutting down, trimming - general maintenance - then you might not like the idea quite so much.

With large woodland space they'll just continue to leave it in a huge heap which will eventually become overgrown with brambles and be hidden as the trees regrow and after a long time, rot down naturally. With agricultural land I suppose a corner will be lost to a huge compost heap.

However, with smaller spaces like our camping/fishing land where there isn't really room to do that (3 hectares, half of it water the rest, banks and tracks around the 3 etangs which need to be kept clear and a fair bit of woodland), it will be quite difficult to get rid of the trimmings at a tip. It may also be quite expensive. Hence me trying to think of a spot where we could do the huge pile of trimmings thing that they do when they harvest woodland - and hope it's not too much of an eyesore or considered a fire risk!!


10 Aug 2012, 14:27
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